Global Collapse

Might seem interesting after a busy 80 hour a week professional career as a calming influence or something, an appreciation of the slow and mind numbing, but being raised in that environment and never wanting to go back strikes me as occurring more often.

Those raised on a farm know exactly how liberating it is. Or not.

The spectrum of collapse.  I too have pondered exactly what is collapse.  Change and death are the way of the world.  A doomer has to wonder if they are a bit off.  Is it a problem that doom heads can't accept reality?

No, collapse is unwanted change and collapse is change which could be prevented. 

Not accepting the unwanted is a good thing!

Doom stalks society but only because people pretend doom is not there.  The denial habit.  If people deal with doom they prepare for the future. 

We know people don't deal with doom or prepare for the future.  Preparing for the future cancels doom.  Not going to happen, but in theory doom could be prevented by rational actions.

Denial is a product of psychology and social pressure not to defy authority should make any sane person question their sanity.  It is hard to think you can keep dry in a rainstorm.  Even harder to actually do it.

Control has great interest in maintaining denial and fighting doom.  Control wants to maintain existing arrangements and will cultivate denial of any other reality.

Quote from: Phil Potts on March 24, 2023, 07:27:36 pm

"Conspiracy" is the one word  ward-off to ignore facts.

That isn't how the word is defined.

It is defined as: "a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful". Conspiracy theory is something else altogether, defined as: a theory that explains an event or set of circumstances as the result of a secret plot by usually powerful conspirators

You'll notice warding off facts isn't included. I will admit that some might use it that way improperly though, during a sort of Gish Gallop routine.

you only wanted to know what word you were using as a one word ward off. It could just as easily be abracadabra or Rumpelstiltskin, so definition is irrelevant.

 YOU refer to "conspiracy" giving zero reasons or facts in support of why you may dismiss anything you label such. I gave YOU numerous examples of things dismissed as conspiracy by your govt being admitted to when the docs are declassified. I mentioned the obvious reasons most Americans now believe Oswald did not act alone and nobody went to the moon. YOU went right on using the single word "conspiracy" as though it is self evident anything bound by that incantation can have no basis

Quote from: Phil Potts

It also dehumanises those that might get silenced.

Well, the Gish Gallop part might, but the definition doesn't say anything about being dehumanizing or silencing either. One of the nice things about defintions of words, and facts, is that mostly they are what they are, facts being something that all parties are expected to agree on as factual in nature, i.e. no real dispute as to them as "fact".

The definition of car does not include driving from Adam Street to  Bergonia Avenue either. 

Quote from: Phil Potts

What I said about tattoos on the guy who started at 48 was an example of a full explanation, one of many I've provided. I didn't define collapse as the tattoo he talked about. I said "controlled civilizational collapse in action" and gave a full breakdown of how that works. To recap, a critical mass of conformist statists with broken spirit are essential to control. So is not using all the oil.

You certainly did have the tattoo idea wrapped up within an overarching concept, and I can see at least a sliver of it. But as I've defined collapse, it is just an irrelevant piece of information along the way, as getting a tattoo isn't of itself the dieoff that cannot be denied. As far as who is, or is not in control, that is open to debate, and your explanation did not appear to link the tattoo to this overarching theme. I don't even know what a "broken spirit" is, let alone what named group has it, or not, or that that subset has announced somewhere or gotten together and given the world the idea that it is required for control. What control? Me? You? Banks and the large institutions that have some attachment to the levers of power?

Your definition is useless except in a posthumous discussion, as I already said twice. The named group is conformist statists as I also said twice. You responded to NF saying essentially that he sees collapse as a process of preparing for a lower energy future, that is for you just doing what you do, farming and as farmgal, breaking horses untamed spirit. If you need a human example, an esteemed academic laureate with accolades out the ass, engaged in avoiding all logical and rational reasoning.

Quote from: Phil Potts

You began with talking about Maga/woke as not being real collapse, though nobody here has said anything about any of that since the new site started.

I did more than talk, I defined a real and undeniable collapse, and within my definition MAGA isn't so much as a pimple on the concept.

While you proclaim ordinary planetary developments as variously a metric or a definition, you did not BEGIN with that. You BEGAN by denouncing a pimple we never mentioned, but is the focus of the people you have said can get paid to post disinformation in line with govt narratives.

Quote from: Phil Potts

Only coincidentally, that's what alphabet agencies are focused on now. As was always said by doomers, the threat of terror and elimination turns to the domestic.

Well now you are talking about governance, and how it happens or comes off the rails. Hitler certainly used the threat of terror and elimination to run a country, as did Stalin. Worked out better for one than another. I don't believe the Swedes suffer from this though, or many other places.

You have obviously not read Sven Larrson

Quote from: Phil Potts

It couldn't be very fulfilling profiling and monitoring an innocuous equestrian like Farmgal and a barber shop quartet of harmless upstarts here. No I don't think all of us do pay the same attention to pattern recognition.

I agree that we don't have the same pattern recognition. Some of us are looking for and focused on a real collapse, the thing us doomers are keyed on, and less about the politics or groups along the way wanting to portray their understanding of the deep state, or energy, or politics, or culture, or banks as the key to something that while often claimed, always seems to sneakily receded around the next corner, each time we turn the current one.

Then there would be nothing for you to discuss. If you can't run your freezer, you can't run your router. No ice, no net. US population declines to Deagal 2025 forecast and you have something to add here only through an oija board.

What then explains your insistence that discussing HOW we arrive is verboten and that we  made wrong predictions and claims, offering no citation or example except imagined things like Tonga disappearing. I've spoken only of things coming over the horizon and now in our face, not disappearing around a corner.

Quote from: Phil Potts

2 billion people dying in a year is just some of us doing what we do and nobody disputes what you mentioned as constituting a collapse.

Exactly. I did a really good definition, to weed out real collapse from the things we pretend are collapse, or might be, or could be tomorrow if only...(fill in the blank). And we then cheapen both the word and the concept. Unfortunately.

YOUR definition is tomorrow. Anything someone else says is in the process, you need to specify the who and why you disagree. Give a full critique. 

Quote from: Phil Potts

I guess there isn't a forum for potential cannibals with modems somewhere to just wait and not say anything about how it's arrived at, hence your time spent telling us not to talk about anything except the completed process.

2 billion dying off isn't a completed process, it is just a metric. In order for that metric to happen, you, me, doomers everywhere will SEE it happening. Slowly at first probably. World population doesn't grow one year. Which means something far worse than Covid showed up. And then it gets worse, quickly. There will be no uncertainty then, because the body count will tell us all along the way.

You need to disprove us on losing access to CNN being a precursor to complete collapse, to insist we will see it from our comfy living rooms. Otherwise I in the southern hemisphere am oblivious to an asteroid or Sarmat putting a dent in another continent.

Quote from: Phil Potts

I already mentioned mass protests in the millions against being enslaved and more recently anti war, so any more in UK will not be covered by the media either.

Sounds sort of like the 60's and Vietnam? Protests aren't collapse. They are protests. And they aren't limited to enslavement, or war or economics, but even more basic things, like health care and food and education. Stopping gun violence and cheering on, or denigrating a political figure. Let us try and not confuse a pretty run of the mill, widespread and common thing with another that is more about survival, rather than preferences in elections or who is getting what slice of the pie and how.

You said a war disrupting food supply was collapse. I said DU munitions have been approved by UK for Ukr and that they poison soil.
U said UK should protest like the Boomers did. I said I've already pointed out anti war protests in the millions in Europe are ignored so more in UK would also be. I never said protests are  completed collapse. Back to the start, you have the food supply of a major donor disrupted.
 Don't waste my time jumping to anything else irrelevant to the topic, if you can never seem to remember what you were talking about.

Quote from: Phil Potts

That's my last reply as I'm sure you have better things to do and I don't like holding forth.

No problem. It was an interesting conversation. And yet for all its voluminosity, I did ask this question 5 days ago, and I'm not sure you posited an anwer.

Do you think that we'll have a collapse, a real collapse, in our lifetimes?