Global Collapse

I'm not the one insisting that a one word incantation wards off all inconvenient fact.

Neither am I. Try not to characterize so far outside of the boundaries that I am obviously drawing with thorough explanations. If you don't like the boundaries I've defined, feel free to offer your own.

I'm also not the one insisting we must be like an animal capable of only recognising that another animal is dead, but not thinking it is going to die itself (constant expressions of wonderment and awe at low EROEI seeing out the boomer generation with a market economy, notwithstanding).

I also made no comparisons to any other species. You wish to do so, fine, then define what you even mean, non-humans being in awe of low eroei or market economies. Certainly I didn't mention much about those topics either in my definition.

The difference between myself and most others of my cohort is that I notice a lot more changes and trends, make more associations and reflect much more on a systematic theory of everything.

Outstanding. And you are presuming that all us other older farts don't do the same? Just because I like a simple metric doesn't mean it doesn't start off with exactly the kind of changes and trends analysis that you reflect on.

When I got in the car this afternoon, I caught some interview about tattoo removal and the interviewer saying he got his first tattoo at 48. He said it was because it really meant something to him. To me this is simply another quintessential example of controlled civilizational collapse in action.

There is nothing wrong with you defining collapse as middle aged people getting tattoos. In my opinion, it cheapens the use of the word among those of us who have been paying attention to the topic, and usually discussing what I will call REAL collapse, as middle aged folks getting tattooes wasn't much of a hot topic at the old Diner, and this is possibly the first time I've heard someone want to use it as an indicator.

If you want to say we have had our lifetimes, then you must say also we have had our civilization.

Now THIS strikes me as an honest thought on what I've been saying. It seems reasonable the more I think of it, so I will agree with you. Us old farts have had our lifetimes, and lived in our civilization. Based on my familiariity with newer folks, I can't say I like what they are deciding to create for their civilization any more than I like tattoos, or they like my opinion on certain topics and then call me "boomer".

Losing 25% of population a year results in complete extinction in 4 yrs. Apparently we would still have access to nternet to only comment on real collapse and not say anything unsettling.

25% year over reductions don't involve the same number each year. 25% reduction in the first year of 8 billion in population is 2 billion, leaving 6 billion remaining. 25% of 6 billion is 1.5 billion dead, 4.5 billion remaining. Another 25% reduction in 4.5? 1.125 down to 3.375. Next is 0.84 billion dead, and a final total of 2.5 billion, give or take. Etc etc.

The UK has just approved supplying depleted uranium ammunition for use in ukr. This not only responsible for the Gulf War Syndrome, but poisons ground so food supply from a major world source is ruined. See no evil, hear no evil.

I imagine if people in the UK care there will be riots in the streets, recalls on all politicians, calls for defunding the military or government. If they aren't, well, the world is a different type society from the one us old farts had, isn't it?

A 120ah deep cycle for the 12v DC secondary system, used at night for small draw, also replaced.  Normally about 300$, premium brand Century , sealed no maintenance. Use with under 100$ 300w inverter and DC LED lights.

Quote from: Phil Potts on March 22, 2023, 01:48:45 am

Quote from: FarmGirl on March 21, 2023, 12:35:04 pm

Do you think that we'll have a collapse, a real collapse, in our lifetimes?

To me the dumbing down of the population with revising down the mean IQ, so that "I literally died" is now a common utterance, IS real collapse.

Well, that is completely reasonable. Collapse can be defined as very personal, and I've tried to separate my definition into the personal and global. Thinking objectively, say on the behalf of children, the well raised ones might enjoy thi situation as an economic advantage.

Quote from: Phil Potts

Nobody did try and convince anyone else any particular final eventuality is here. nearings fault specified what he envisions and that's something I see as probable also.  By your logic you do not get to also try and convince anyone you are past your heydey and will die, unless you have lost 3 pints of blood and are still gushing blood like a hydrant.

Oh, that wasn't really my logic. Mine was more like a monstrous nasty pandemic, some REAL wars kicking off involving weapons capable of not only erasing nations but the accompanyng food producing infrastructure, Yellowstone going boom, a small sized cosmic collision, etc etc.

Quote from: Phil Potts

..as none of us said we would be extinct within 4 yrs of peak oil.

Indeed. No one has that I am aware of, so I am unaware of how this particular claim is useful in this conversation.

Quote from: Phil Potts

If a whole page proving a point is  too complicated, Twitter to not exceed today's attention span might be a better forum [/i]

I'll take your word for, and if you think that is where your point (IQ decreasing meaning collapse perhaps?) is better suited please, don't let anything I've said stop you.

I'm not the one insisting that a one word incantation wards off all inconvenient fact. I'm also not the one insisting we must be like an animal capable of only recognising that another animal is dead, but not thinking it is going to die itself (constant expressions of wonderment and awe at low EROEI seeing out the boomer generation with a market economy, notwithstanding).

There was a paragraph in my previous post above ☝️ you missed (italicised), but I'm really pointing that out for the benefit of anyone else who might have also not seen it buried in there. That's if this endless rehash of reassuring sophistry for the simple isn't boring them to death. Here is the snippet anyway:

I can talk about our lifetimes because we've had them. You and I and RE, we aren't spring chickens, right? I think we can give Monsta a pass, he has more time to run than us old farts. And the coming collapse is a given, and has been since folks began realizing what growth and consumption and capitalism and pollution will do, call it Earth Day 1970 if you want me to pick a date when the basics of collapse were coming into view reasonably widely.

But the definition of collapse is what Monsta and I were commenting on. We, the collective we, cheapen the word, using it as we do for inconsequential events.


Again, you don't speak for me only pontificating and making prognostications on a process of decline and decay. My years in the 20th Century are only a few more than the years in the 21st Century, but I am as stolidly a 20th Century man as the geezers RE has for company, hence your seeming slight over estimation on my near completion on an allotted three score and ten.

The difference between myself and most others of my cohort is that I notice a lot more changes and trends, make more associations and reflect much more on a systematic theory of everything. When I got in the car this afternoon, I caught some interview about tattoo removal and the interviewer saying he got his first tattoo at 48. He said it was because it really meant something to him. To me this is simply another quintessential example of controlled civilizational collapse in action. Getting everyone to largely deface and there by degrade themselves as de riguer, demoralizes the population making them far more amenable to undergo whatever form of processing they are programmed to accept. I don't buy that this guy never previously got tattoos because there was nothing so meaningful as now. He is unoriginal in following the herd and giving a standard unoriginal explanation. That is not to say there never were people who did get things that mean something to them, but they were the minority. A critical mass of conformist statists is essential to control as more rights are removed.

If you want to say we have had our lifetimes, then you must say also we have had our civilization. You can not object to pointing out known signposts and markers of collapsing empires and civilizations as not being like experiencing vascular dementia and incontinence.

Nobody did try and convince anyone else any particular final eventuality is here. nearings fault specified what he envisions and that's something I see as probable also.  By your logic you do not get to also try and convince anyone you are past your heydey and will die, unless you have lost 3 pints of blood and are still gushing blood like a hydrant.

Oh, that wasn't really my logic. Mine was more like a monstrous nasty pandemic, some REAL wars kicking off involving weapons capable of not only erasing nations but the accompanyng food producing infrastructure, Yellowstone going boom, a small sized cosmic collision, etc etc.

..as none of us said we would be extinct within 4 yrs of peak oil.

Indeed. No one has that I am aware of, so I am unaware of how this particular claim is useful in this conversation.

Losing 25% of population a year results in complete extinction in 4 yrs. Apparently we would still have access to nternet to only comment on real collapse and not say anything unsettling.

The UK has just approved supplying depleted uranium ammunition for use in ukr. This not only responsible for the Gulf War Syndrome, but poisons ground so food supply from a major world source is ruined. See no evil, hear no evil.

In ten years the worlds leading producer of oil will tap out.

Is that the one that that was supposed to have been tapped out in 1970, or the one supposed to have been tapped out in 2003 or so?

Then **** hits the fan.  Eat right and take care of yourself. 

Well, eat right and take care of yourself indeed. It seems reasonable to venture that personal collapse will still arrive for us older farts before a real one finally shows up regardless. Isn't this an eat, drink and be merry phase of our lives?

Hope you don't come down with something fatal.  Roll the dice.  Can you make it 10 years.  You will see collapse if you do.  If I am there with you, we will be in a strange way lucky.

Sorry K-Dog, but we all inherited a death sentence the instant we took our first breath. I think living life to its fullest has been the plan since the day any of us realized that we are all doomed. It is just a matter of when.

So here is real collapse on a local level. Our township came out with a report stating that they have almost 30 million dollars of bridge repairs and replacement to do and no money to do it with. The plan is to deactivate 3 bridges deemed non essential and wait for provincial funding for the rest... On another note there is an uproar going on about plans to revert certain roads to gravel from paved surface. Everyone wants their road to retain paving but the township cannot afford it. Tax increases above inflation are deemed sacreligious so no recourse there. With an eye towards "collapse" I see a community coming to terms with diminishing levels of  surplus energy and a real world lesson about the limits of growth. As another aside the town has increased the size of it treatment plant and plans to densify it's central core. I suppose that plays into the 15 minute talk from above. I see all that as a good thing and a return to historical norms after 3 generations of sheer debaucherous energy excess. A tougher life more constrained by naturally imposed limits. Collapse of the high energy usage fairy tale. It's early days of course but that is how it looks to me.