Global Collapse

Radical, systemic change never produces profit.

I make sweeping generalizations, I know. My generalizations describe collective action, not specifics. Collective action is what makes CO2 concentration in the air go up. Increasing CO2 in the air dooms humanity. It is as simple as that.

The details one gets easily lost in. The forest cannot be seen through the trees. The details are a quagmire. The big picture is my CO2 concentration in the top right of this page goes up, and never down.

It is this simple. Light is absorbed by fog. If someone shines a light at you and there is enough fog, you can't see the light. You already know this. A beam of light is scattered and absorbed by fog. Where it is absorbed, it becomes heat. But not enough heat so you will notice. If you understand this, you can understand what CO2 does in the air.

The sun sends light to earth, only part of which we can see. That which we can see is not blocked by CO2. The air is clear to visible light. Much of light that we can't see is blocked as if by fog. Light we can't see is infrared light. Infrared light scatters and is absorbed by CO2. Heat on the earths surface can't escape to space easily because CO2 blocks radiated heat. Radiated heat is the same thing as infrared light. Hot objects glow with infrared light that people can't see. CO2 scatters and absorbs radiated heat, making air warmer. Enough so you notice. The sun is more than a flashlight.

Visible light is not always reflected when it strikes the earth. Visible light absorbed, becomes heat. Which CO2 prevents the escape of. More CO2, more heat.

Energy from the sun is always radiated away from the earth as heat or reflected light. What comes in goes out. A balance is kept. As the earth warms from absorbing energy from the sun. Heat radiates away to keep the solar energy flow in balance. More CO2 in the air means more energy captured before it is radiated away. Temperature rises to keep in-out energy flow balance correct.

Simple stuff, but nobody cares. Again, a generalization that only in the collective is right.

Ill assume EM = electromagnetic.

Are you saying all heat is IR, despite not all heat being equally deeply penetrating?

EM radiation is EM radiation. This is the infrared frequency and explanation. Usually, higher frequency EM is more deeply penetrating. There is plenty of information on the internet explaining it, pretty easy to look up.

If CO2 surrounding hot steel absorbs IR and then radiates IR, it does not block or trap heat, but conducts it, so what is the difference between that and oxygen?

No need to ask me questions, this is all pretty basic and settled science. Physics mostly.

Yes science is useful, but is essentially a method, which we are engaged in here and now with deductive reasoning.

Math doesn't lie, and the general laws of the universe don't either. Deductive reasoning is what you use when you want to prove 4 angels dance on the head of a pin, rather than 5, because there isn't enough room for 5.

Do you have an objection to basic physical properties of matter and energy that folks figured out 150+ years ago? And used those principles to build perfectly working microwave ovens and heat lamp and lasers and whatnot?

Thanks KD, but we are still stuck with the problem of CO2 being a 1 way valve for heat.

The physical property of a solid, liquid or gas isn't a problem. It is just an empirical property of molecules. Why are physical properties of matter a problem? And for who? 

A molecule can give up vibrational energy by emitting an infrared photon of light at temperatures we are familiar with.

Do you have a photo of said photon? What store might i be able to buy one at, that i can examine it? I read on the internet that it was created to explain why the rioters on january 6 flooded the capital, they were infected with a micro receiver by government agents in the crowd spraying it from those aerosol dispensers that looked like disinfectant because of Covid. It turned those otherwise wise and gentle Qanon folks into raging zombies when photons were beamed at the micro-receivers that had been planted in them. Even a small mount of deductive reasoning can prove all of this, obviously, but I am willing to retract it all if you can show me a picture of this photon thingy. /s

   Too much? 

Interesting site. Good easily understood explanation with links to videos for those who dont want to read.

JOW

Link:
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Text:
How Exactly Does Carbon Dioxide Cause Global Warming?
BY SARAH FECHT |FEBRUARY 25, 2021
141
 Comments
“You Asked” is a series where Earth Institute experts tackle reader questions on science and sustainability. Over the past few years, we’ve received a lot of questions about carbon dioxide — how it traps heat, how it can have such a big effect if it only makes up a tiny percentage of the atmosphere, and more. With the help of Jason Smerdon, a climate scientist at Columbia University’s Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory, we answer several of those questions here.

How does carbon dioxide trap heat?
You’ve probably already read that carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases act like a blanket or a cap, trapping some of the heat that Earth might have otherwise radiated out into space. That’s the simple answer. But how exactly do certain molecules trap heat? The answer there requires diving into physics and chemistry.

simplified diagram of the greenhouse effect
Simplified diagram showing how Earth transforms sunlight into infrared energy. Greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide and methane absorb the infrared energy, re-emitting some of it back toward Earth and some of it out into space. Credit: A loose necktie on Wikimedia Commons

When sunlight reaches Earth, the surface absorbs some of the light’s energy and reradiates it as infrared waves, which we feel as heat. (Hold your hand over a dark rock on a warm sunny day and you can feel this phenomenon for yourself.) These infrared waves travel up into the atmosphere and will escape back into space if unimpeded.

Oxygen and nitrogen don’t interfere with infrared waves in the atmosphere. That’s because molecules are picky about the range of wavelengths that they interact with, Smerdon explained. For example, oxygen and nitrogen absorb energy that has tightly packed wavelengths of around 200 nanometers or less, whereas infrared energy travels at wider and lazier wavelengths of 700 to 1,000,000 nanometers. Those ranges don’t overlap, so to oxygen and nitrogen, it’s as if the infrared waves don’t even exist; they let the waves (and heat) pass freely through the atmosphere.

electromagnetic spectrum
A diagram showing the wavelengths of different types of energy. Energy from the Sun reaches Earth as mostly visible light. Earth reradiates that energy as infrared energy, which has a longer, slower wavelength. Whereas oxygen and nitrogen do not respond to infrared waves, greenhouse gases do. Credit: NASA

With CO2 and other greenhouse gases, it’s different. Carbon dioxide, for example, absorbs energy at a variety of wavelengths between 2,000 and 15,000 nanometers — a range that overlaps with that of infrared energy. As CO2 soaks up this infrared energy, it vibrates and re-emits the infrared energy back in all directions. About half of that energy goes out into space, and about half of it returns to Earth as heat, contributing to the ‘greenhouse effect.’

infrared radiation from different gases in the atmosphere
By measuring the wavelengths of infrared radiation that reaches the surface, scientists know that carbon dioxide, ozone, and methane are significantly contributing to rising global temperatures. Credit: Evans 2006 via Skeptical Science

Smerdon says that the reason why some molecules absorb infrared waves and some don’t “depends on their geometry and their composition.” He explained that oxygen and nitrogen molecules are simple — they’re each made up of only two atoms of the same element — which narrows their movements and the variety of wavelengths they can interact with. But greenhouse gases like CO2 and methane are made up of three or more atoms, which gives them a larger variety of ways to stretch and bend and twist. That means they can absorb a wider range of wavelengths — including infrared waves.

How can I see for myself that CO2 absorbs heat?
As an experiment that can be done in the home or the classroom, Smerdon recommends filling one soda bottle with CO2 (perhaps from a soda machine) and filling a second bottle with ambient air. “If you expose them both to a heat lamp, the CO2 bottle will warm up much more than the bottle with just ambient air,” he says. He recommends checking the bottle temperatures with a no-touch infrared thermometer. You’ll also want to make sure that you use the same style of bottle for each, and that both bottles receive the same amount of light from the lamp. Here’s a video of a similar experiment:



A more logistically challenging experiment that Smerdon recommends involves putting an infrared camera and a candle at opposite ends of a closed tube. When the tube is filled with ambient air, the camera picks up the infrared heat from the candle clearly. But once the tube is filled with carbon dioxide, the infrared image of the flame disappears, because the CO2 in the tube absorbs and scatters the heat from the candle in all directions, and therefore blurs out the image of the candle. There are several videos of the experiment online, including this one:



Why does carbon dioxide let heat in, but not out?
Energy enters our atmosphere as visible light, whereas it tries to leave as infrared energy. In other words, “energy coming into our planet from the Sun arrives as one currency, and it leaves in another,” said Smerdon.

CO2 molecules don’t really interact with sunlight’s wavelengths. Only after the Earth absorbs sunlight and reemits the energy as infrared waves can the CO2 and other greenhouse gases absorb the energy.

How can CO2 trap so much heat if it only makes up 0.04% of the atmosphere? Aren’t the molecules spaced too far apart?
Before humans began burning fossil fuels, naturally occurring greenhouse gases helped to make Earth’s climate habitable. Without them, the planet’s average temperature would be below freezing. So we know that even very low, natural levels of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases can make a huge difference in Earth’s climate.

Today, CO2 levels are higher than they have been in at least 3 million years. And although they still account for only 0.04% of the atmosphere, that still adds up to billions upon billions of tons of heat-trapping gas. For example, in 2019 alone, humans dumped 36.44 billion tonnes of CO2 into the atmosphere, where it will linger for hundreds of years. So there are plenty of CO2 molecules to provide a heat-trapping blanket across the entire atmosphere.

In addition, “trace amounts of a substance can have a large impact on a system,” explains Smerdon. Borrowing an analogy from Penn State meteorology professor David Titley, Smerdon said that “If someone my size drinks two beers, my blood alcohol content will be about 0.04 percent. That is right when the human body starts to feel the effects of alcohol.” Commercial drivers with a blood alcohol content of 0.04% can be convicted for driving under the influence.

“Similarly, it doesn’t take that much cyanide to poison a person,” adds Smerdon. “It has to do with how that specific substance interacts with the larger system and what it does to influence that system.”

In the case of greenhouse gases, the planet’s temperature is a balance between how much energy comes in versus how much energy goes out. Ultimately, any increase in the amount of heat-trapping means that the Earth’s surface gets hotter. (For a more advanced discussion of the thermodynamics involved, check out this NASA page.)

If there’s more water than CO2 in the atmosphere, how do we know that water isn’t to blame for climate change?
Water is indeed a greenhouse gas. It absorbs and re-emits infrared radiation, and thus makes the planet warmer. However, Smerdon says the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere is a consequence of warming rather than a driving force, because warmer air holds more water.

“We know this on a seasonal level,” he explains. “It’s generally drier in the winter when our local atmosphere is colder, and it’s more humid in the summer when it’s warmer.”

As carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases heat up the planet, more water evaporates into the atmosphere, which in turn raises the temperature further. However, a hypothetical villain would not be able to exacerbate climate change by trying to pump more water vapor into the atmosphere, says Smerdon. “It would all rain out because temperature determines how much moisture can actually be held by the atmosphere.”

Similarly, it makes no sense to try to remove water vapor from the atmosphere, because natural, temperature-driven evaporation from plants and bodies of water would immediately replace it. To reduce water vapor in the atmosphere, we must lower global temperatures by reducing other greenhouse gases.

If Venus has an atmosphere that’s 95% CO2, shouldn’t it be a lot hotter than Earth?
image of venus from space
Thick clouds of sulfuric acid surround Venus and prevent 75% of sunlight from reaching the planet’s surface. Without these clouds, Venus would be even hotter than it already is. Credit: NASA

The concentration of CO2 in Venus’ atmosphere is about 2,400 times higher than that of Earth. Yet the average temperature of Venus is only about 15 times higher. What gives?

Interestingly enough, part of the answer has to do with water vapor. According to Smerdon, scientists think that long ago, Venus experienced a runaway greenhouse effect that boiled away almost all of the planet’s water — and water vapor, remember, is also a heat-trapping gas.

“It doesn’t have water vapor in its atmosphere, which is an important factor,” says Smerdon. “And then the other important factor is Venus has all these crazy sulfuric acid clouds.”

High up in Venus’ atmosphere, he explained, clouds of sulfuric acid block about 75% of incoming sunlight. That means the vast majority of sunlight never gets a chance to reach the planet’s surface, return to the atmosphere as infrared energy, and get trapped by all that CO2 in the atmosphere.

Won’t the plants, ocean, and soil just absorb all the excess CO2?
Eventually … in several thousand years or so.

Plants, the oceans, and soil are natural carbon sinks — they remove some carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and store it underground, underwater, or in roots and tree trunks. Without human activity, the vast amounts of carbon in coal, oil, and natural gas deposits would have remained stored underground and mostly separate from the rest of the carbon cycle. But by burning these fossil fuels, humans are adding a lot more carbon into the atmosphere and ocean, and the carbon sinks don’t work fast enough to clean up our mess.

carbon cycle diagram
A simplified diagram showing the carbon cycle. Credit: Jack Cook/Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution

It’s like watering your garden with a firehose. Even though plants absorb water, they can only do so at a set rate, and if you keep running the firehose, your yard is going to flood. Currently our atmosphere and ocean are flooded with CO2, and we can see that the carbon sinks can’t keep up because the concentrations of CO2 in the atmosphere and oceans are rising quickly.

chart showing rising co2 in the atmosphere
The amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere (raspberry line) has increased along with human emissions (blue line) since the start of the Industrial Revolution in 1750. Credit: NOAA Climate.gov

Unfortunately, we don’t have thousands of years to wait for nature to absorb the flood of CO2. By then, billions of people would have suffered and died from the impacts of climate change; there would be mass extinctions, and our beautiful planet would become unrecognizable. We can avoid much of that damage and suffering through a combination of decarbonizing our energy supply, pulling CO2 out the atmosphere, and developing more sustainable ways of thriving.

Editor’s note (March 17, 2021): This post was updated with additional links to Youtube videos with experiments showing the effects of carbon dioxide. Enjoy!

Interesting site. Good easily understood explanation with links to videos for those who dont want to read.

JOW

Link:
https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2021/02/25/carbon-dioxide-cause-global-warming/#:~:text=As%20CO2%20soaks%20up%20this,'

Text:
How Exactly Does Carbon Dioxide Cause Global Warming?
BY SARAH FECHT |FEBRUARY 25, 2021
141
 Comments
“You Asked” is a series where Earth Institute experts tackle reader questions on science and sustainability. Over the past few years, we’ve received a lot of questions about carbon dioxide — how it traps heat, how it can have such a big effect if it only makes up a tiny percentage of the atmosphere, and more. With the help of Jason Smerdon, a climate scientist at Columbia University’s Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory, we answer several of those questions here.

How does carbon dioxide trap heat?
You’ve probably already read that carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases act like a blanket or a cap, trapping some of the heat that Earth might have otherwise radiated out into space. That’s the simple answer. But how exactly do certain molecules trap heat? The answer there requires diving into physics and chemistry.

simplified diagram of the greenhouse effect
Simplified diagram showing how Earth transforms sunlight into infrared energy. Greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide and methane absorb the infrared energy, re-emitting some of it back toward Earth and some of it out into space. Credit: A loose necktie on Wikimedia Commons

When sunlight reaches Earth, the surface absorbs some of the light’s energy and reradiates it as infrared waves, which we feel as heat. (Hold your hand over a dark rock on a warm sunny day and you can feel this phenomenon for yourself.) These infrared waves travel up into the atmosphere and will escape back into space if unimpeded.

Oxygen and nitrogen don’t interfere with infrared waves in the atmosphere. That’s because molecules are picky about the range of wavelengths that they interact with, Smerdon explained. For example, oxygen and nitrogen absorb energy that has tightly packed wavelengths of around 200 nanometers or less, whereas infrared energy travels at wider and lazier wavelengths of 700 to 1,000,000 nanometers. Those ranges don’t overlap, so to oxygen and nitrogen, it’s as if the infrared waves don’t even exist; they let the waves (and heat) pass freely through the atmosphere.

electromagnetic spectrum
A diagram showing the wavelengths of different types of energy. Energy from the Sun reaches Earth as mostly visible light. Earth reradiates that energy as infrared energy, which has a longer, slower wavelength. Whereas oxygen and nitrogen do not respond to infrared waves, greenhouse gases do. Credit: NASA

With CO2 and other greenhouse gases, it’s different. Carbon dioxide, for example, absorbs energy at a variety of wavelengths between 2,000 and 15,000 nanometers — a range that overlaps with that of infrared energy. As CO2 soaks up this infrared energy, it vibrates and re-emits the infrared energy back in all directions. About half of that energy goes out into space, and about half of it returns to Earth as heat, contributing to the ‘greenhouse effect.’

infrared radiation from different gases in the atmosphere
By measuring the wavelengths of infrared radiation that reaches the surface, scientists know that carbon dioxide, ozone, and methane are significantly contributing to rising global temperatures. Credit: Evans 2006 via Skeptical Science

Smerdon says that the reason why some molecules absorb infrared waves and some don’t “depends on their geometry and their composition.” He explained that oxygen and nitrogen molecules are simple — they’re each made up of only two atoms of the same element — which narrows their movements and the variety of wavelengths they can interact with. But greenhouse gases like CO2 and methane are made up of three or more atoms, which gives them a larger variety of ways to stretch and bend and twist. That means they can absorb a wider range of wavelengths — including infrared waves.

How can I see for myself that CO2 absorbs heat?
As an experiment that can be done in the home or the classroom, Smerdon recommends filling one soda bottle with CO2 (perhaps from a soda machine) and filling a second bottle with ambient air. “If you expose them both to a heat lamp, the CO2 bottle will warm up much more than the bottle with just ambient air,” he says. He recommends checking the bottle temperatures with a no-touch infrared thermometer. You’ll also want to make sure that you use the same style of bottle for each, and that both bottles receive the same amount of light from the lamp. Here’s a video of a similar experiment:



A more logistically challenging experiment that Smerdon recommends involves putting an infrared camera and a candle at opposite ends of a closed tube. When the tube is filled with ambient air, the camera picks up the infrared heat from the candle clearly. But once the tube is filled with carbon dioxide, the infrared image of the flame disappears, because the CO2 in the tube absorbs and scatters the heat from the candle in all directions, and therefore blurs out the image of the candle. There are several videos of the experiment online, including this one:



Why does carbon dioxide let heat in, but not out?
Energy enters our atmosphere as visible light, whereas it tries to leave as infrared energy. In other words, “energy coming into our planet from the Sun arrives as one currency, and it leaves in another,” said Smerdon.

CO2 molecules don’t really interact with sunlight’s wavelengths. Only after the Earth absorbs sunlight and reemits the energy as infrared waves can the CO2 and other greenhouse gases absorb the energy.

How can CO2 trap so much heat if it only makes up 0.04% of the atmosphere? Aren’t the molecules spaced too far apart?
Before humans began burning fossil fuels, naturally occurring greenhouse gases helped to make Earth’s climate habitable. Without them, the planet’s average temperature would be below freezing. So we know that even very low, natural levels of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases can make a huge difference in Earth’s climate.

Today, CO2 levels are higher than they have been in at least 3 million years. And although they still account for only 0.04% of the atmosphere, that still adds up to billions upon billions of tons of heat-trapping gas. For example, in 2019 alone, humans dumped 36.44 billion tonnes of CO2 into the atmosphere, where it will linger for hundreds of years. So there are plenty of CO2 molecules to provide a heat-trapping blanket across the entire atmosphere.

In addition, “trace amounts of a substance can have a large impact on a system,” explains Smerdon. Borrowing an analogy from Penn State meteorology professor David Titley, Smerdon said that “If someone my size drinks two beers, my blood alcohol content will be about 0.04 percent. That is right when the human body starts to feel the effects of alcohol.” Commercial drivers with a blood alcohol content of 0.04% can be convicted for driving under the influence.

“Similarly, it doesn’t take that much cyanide to poison a person,” adds Smerdon. “It has to do with how that specific substance interacts with the larger system and what it does to influence that system.”

In the case of greenhouse gases, the planet’s temperature is a balance between how much energy comes in versus how much energy goes out. Ultimately, any increase in the amount of heat-trapping means that the Earth’s surface gets hotter. (For a more advanced discussion of the thermodynamics involved, check out this NASA page.)

If there’s more water than CO2 in the atmosphere, how do we know that water isn’t to blame for climate change?
Water is indeed a greenhouse gas. It absorbs and re-emits infrared radiation, and thus makes the planet warmer. However, Smerdon says the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere is a consequence of warming rather than a driving force, because warmer air holds more water.

“We know this on a seasonal level,” he explains. “It’s generally drier in the winter when our local atmosphere is colder, and it’s more humid in the summer when it’s warmer.”

As carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases heat up the planet, more water evaporates into the atmosphere, which in turn raises the temperature further. However, a hypothetical villain would not be able to exacerbate climate change by trying to pump more water vapor into the atmosphere, says Smerdon. “It would all rain out because temperature determines how much moisture can actually be held by the atmosphere.”

Similarly, it makes no sense to try to remove water vapor from the atmosphere, because natural, temperature-driven evaporation from plants and bodies of water would immediately replace it. To reduce water vapor in the atmosphere, we must lower global temperatures by reducing other greenhouse gases.

If Venus has an atmosphere that’s 95% CO2, shouldn’t it be a lot hotter than Earth?
image of venus from space
Thick clouds of sulfuric acid surround Venus and prevent 75% of sunlight from reaching the planet’s surface. Without these clouds, Venus would be even hotter than it already is. Credit: NASA

The concentration of CO2 in Venus’ atmosphere is about 2,400 times higher than that of Earth. Yet the average temperature of Venus is only about 15 times higher. What gives?

Interestingly enough, part of the answer has to do with water vapor. According to Smerdon, scientists think that long ago, Venus experienced a runaway greenhouse effect that boiled away almost all of the planet’s water — and water vapor, remember, is also a heat-trapping gas.

“It doesn’t have water vapor in its atmosphere, which is an important factor,” says Smerdon. “And then the other important factor is Venus has all these crazy sulfuric acid clouds.”

High up in Venus’ atmosphere, he explained, clouds of sulfuric acid block about 75% of incoming sunlight. That means the vast majority of sunlight never gets a chance to reach the planet’s surface, return to the atmosphere as infrared energy, and get trapped by all that CO2 in the atmosphere.

Won’t the plants, ocean, and soil just absorb all the excess CO2?
Eventually … in several thousand years or so.

Plants, the oceans, and soil are natural carbon sinks — they remove some carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and store it underground, underwater, or in roots and tree trunks. Without human activity, the vast amounts of carbon in coal, oil, and natural gas deposits would have remained stored underground and mostly separate from the rest of the carbon cycle. But by burning these fossil fuels, humans are adding a lot more carbon into the atmosphere and ocean, and the carbon sinks don’t work fast enough to clean up our mess.

carbon cycle diagram
A simplified diagram showing the carbon cycle. Credit: Jack Cook/Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution

It’s like watering your garden with a firehose. Even though plants absorb water, they can only do so at a set rate, and if you keep running the firehose, your yard is going to flood. Currently our atmosphere and ocean are flooded with CO2, and we can see that the carbon sinks can’t keep up because the concentrations of CO2 in the atmosphere and oceans are rising quickly.

chart showing rising co2 in the atmosphere
The amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere (raspberry line) has increased along with human emissions (blue line) since the start of the Industrial Revolution in 1750. Credit: NOAA Climate.gov

Unfortunately, we don’t have thousands of years to wait for nature to absorb the flood of CO2. By then, billions of people would have suffered and died from the impacts of climate change; there would be mass extinctions, and our beautiful planet would become unrecognizable. We can avoid much of that damage and suffering through a combination of decarbonizing our energy supply, pulling CO2 out the atmosphere, and developing more sustainable ways of thriving.

Editor’s note (March 17, 2021): This post was updated with additional links to Youtube videos with experiments showing the effects of carbon dioxide. Enjoy!

A few problems with this.

 Sunlight is felt as heat not just light. The question is then whether ultra violet is felt immediately as heat. I was trying to get around to that. If so, then the question of whether CO2 blocks more heat from the sun than it traps, is resolved.

Venus water apparently boiled off due to runaway climate change. We are not told why that water vapour did not reach a height where it was far enough away from the hot surface to condense and precipitate, especially if Venus is rotating and the clouds spend time not facing the sun.

A bottle of CO2 is described as getting "much warmer" than a bottle of air if heated. I assume they meant for equal time at equal ambient temperature. Put aside the problem of filling the bottle with CO2 when it is weightless (though climate narrative measures it in tons not cubic metres), without compressing it which makes it cold. Does "much warmer" mean even twice as warm?   If we are only talking twice as warm with a 100% concentration, why would a concentration of 0.04% be even measurable.

The candle experiment is inadequate. The size of tube or length of time is not specified.  If the tube fills with CO2 the flame will go out to begin with, that explains no longer seeing it as lone IR. The air in the tube also heats up, further explaining why everything in the tube is showing IR and not just the candle (flame?) KD was capable of giving a straightforward answer in the affirmative to the question of IR being one and the same thing as heat. Until we know the sun is not radiating heat, C02 as a greenhouse gas remains like cloud.

 I credited cloud from the beginning with both trapping heat as long as we are creating it by burning our daily amount of coal, oil and gas. I also said I believe it acts as a self correcting system by blocking the sun and cooling earth if it gets too hot (before an ice age or mini ice age does it anyway). Before that happens we could expect super storms. We have super storms but the contribution of geo engineering is not know, at least to us. There is no incentive to discuss the impact of US HAARP network, or China's much bigger "river in the sky" on extreme weather events, when the question is begging.

We are told C02 was at a higher concentration 3m years ago. Early hominid human ancestors were ONLY living right on the equator at that time. Note anthropology does not call that "Settled Science", because a 6m year or older proto human fossil may yet be found in Antarctica or Alaska the same way caffeine, red wine, cholesterol, carbohydrates and fats are in endless cycles of being proven good and bad for you. We only invoke this new term where it is being used to transform civilization by politicians, even with the widest margin of error and record of failure.

Quote from: Phil Potts on August 03, 2022, 12:48:01 am

Ill assume EM = electromagnetic.

Are you saying all heat is IR, despite not all heat being equally deeply penetrating?

EM radiation is EM radiation. This is the infrared frequency and explanation. Usually, higher frequency EM is more deeply penetrating. There is plenty of information on the internet explaining it, pretty easy to look up.

Quote from: Phil Potts

If CO2 surrounding hot steel absorbs IR and then radiates IR, it does not block or trap heat, but conducts it, so what is the difference between that and oxygen?

No need to ask me questions, this is all pretty basic and settled science. Physics mostly.

Quote from: Phil Potts

Yes science is useful, but is essentially a method, which we are engaged in here and now with deductive reasoning.

Math doesn't lie, and the general laws of the universe don't either. Deductive reasoning is what you use when you want to prove 4 angels dance on the head of a pin, rather than 5, because there isn't enough room for 5.

Do you have an objection to basic physical properties of matter and energy that folks figured out 150+ years ago? And used those principles to build perfectly working microwave ovens and heat lamp and lasers and whatnot?

Tower of Babel, babbling, Babylon. You must have heard bible students talking of references to Babylon in end times meaning America. I thought the tale was probably about writing changing from hieroglyphic to phonetic, so if you didn't know the new characters or letters you couldn't read and learn. Maybe the prohecy geeks are onto something when the place that no longer explains acronyms is near the nadir.

From the link: Slightly more than half of the energy from the Sun was eventually found, through Herschel's studies, to arrive on Earth in the form of infrared. The balance between absorbed and emitted infrared radiation has an important effect on Earth's climate.

This is one thing I'm questioning is not addressed and might exonerate Al Gore like Colin Powell, just passing on his Intel.

Around 8 question marks addressed to me, but no need to ask one myself?

Deductive reasoning involves honest logical appraisal and is different to deliberate deception. Especially where something is used as justification for consolidating and extending powers by those in power, I'll query whether I'm being given the whole truth. Stalin called those treating every decree like stone tablets brought down from mt sainai, useful idiots

Temperature's rising...

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/11/europe/europe-heatwave-august-intl/index.html

Europe reels as repeated heatwaves cause chaos

RE

Heat wave in Europe: Some people can drink only four hours of water a day amid drought warnings



The heat wave last month made Europe dry out .  This time around the misery is amped up.  This is the hottest European summer in 300 years.

Will this affect the price of wheat?