Global Collapse

I asked for a simple check to not waste mine and readers time in pointless long exchanges pinning down false premises. If we can't do that, I have better things to do.

Quote from: Phil Potts on April 01, 2023, 02:05:22 pm

The point is you appeared to forget saying this:

 "And the coming collapse is a given, and has been since folks began realizing what growth and consumption and capitalism and pollution will do, call it Earth Day 1970 if you want me to pick a date when the basics of collapse were coming into view reasonably widely."

when saying this about three days later:

That is a claim that has been around 1970 Earth Day when the collapse was supposed to arrive via overpopulation and pollution.

Oh, I don't forget this at all, I forget the government goon part.

if he wasn't from county, state or fed govt,  was it just a metre reader from the electric company?


I picked a date when the basics of collapse were coming into view, Earth Day 1970. Pollution, climate, lack of oil, I completely agree with both statemenets. The second statement is nothing but mentioning that pollution and overpopulation were part of what was claimed during Earth Day 1970. I like that as a marker for when scientists and credible people claimed a doom that then didn't arrive.

It literally states 1970 as when the collapse arrives ('That is a claim that has been around 1970 Earth Day when the collapse was supposed to arrive..').  If you meant a prediction was made in 1970 for a future date, you needed to give the date of the predicted collapse, with who said what would happen.

Quote from: Phil Potts

Backpedaling on that could be believable, but not when you have more claims of a rough peak date being complete collapse, than remaining barrels of oil on earth.  [/b]

I didn't back pedal on anything. Coming collapse was noticed and the particulars laid down, if I had to pick a date, on Earth Day 1970. Turns out, the timing sure was nonsense though.

I did not say you HAD (past tense) backpeddled on that. Clearly at that point you HAD said nothing further in explanation of it. I said that going forward, backpeddling on it would not be credible. Not credible when you have made innumerable accusations on claims of "collapsing yesterday, collapsing today, collapsing tomorrow" re only claiming a lower energy future, and
"Sure...but how many years do you need to see it and claim it before everyone else figures out you pulled the trigger on claiming it WAY early?" re being in "pre collapse".

Whatever the scope of the movement protesting the problem was in 1970 is probably more than matched today by people against the solution; managed depopulation. The pollution and population problems could only be postponed under the growth based paradigm.

Quote from: Phil Potts on March 30, 2023, 01:16:12 am

Quote from: FarmGirl on March 27, 2023, 07:21:34 am

Now go do a survey and see if you can figure out how many folks will willingly run to that lifestyle and call it "liberation".

If you and the other conformist herd animals I expressly excluded from also not putting ultimate value on running water are as happy as pigs in ****, why object to the word "wonderful" for your Brave New World?

Conformist herd animals? Not sure I acquired that characteristic considering my history is anything but....


I thought being a Wildcatter just meant you like fracking in previously protected wildlife parks.


you get this because I defined collapse in a way you don't like?

I'm not the one admonishing any discussion of antecedents to the obvious until the afterlife. Nobody disputes the obvious completed process, as I already said.

that's getting repetitive, so let's try applying your own reasoning, which apparently are
not rhetorical tricks:  We use only the dictionary definition as you insisted on for other words. Thereby an earthquake causes collapse only because buildings lose structural strength and topple, not because anyone inside them died. Deathtoll then, does not equate to collapse. Furthermore, this costs nothing, being provided courtesy of tectonic shifting and can not then be made more expensive or cheaper. The definition can not be cheapened and you have no reason to say that is your objection to discussion of decline and collapse of western civilization or all industrial civilization. 

How did you make that leap?

You said you do this primarily for the fun of it

Running water is a great thing, having lived without it for 4 winters in high school when the pipes froze, I can personally attest to its greatness. Each spring!


The question then is what you would be willing to trade for it.

Quote from: Phil Potts

Quote from: FarmGirl

Those raised on a farm know exactly how liberating it is. Or not.

The govt goon you threatened to shoot got their way right? So it's exactly as liberating as living in luxury in Trump Tower or Mar a Lago when the feds come with a warrant.

You'll have to fill me in on this government goon, I can't say I remember any such event myself?

While I'm the first to suspect a lot of stories that don't add up being made up, I'll bet the farm that one was real.

You don't seem to recall saying above in the past few days that Earth Day 1970 brought the inevitability of collapse via pollution and resource depletion into focus. So you can be forgiven forgetting further back than the past few years, the anecdote:

How in your impulsive and testosterone fuelled youth, way out where they play the 5 string with 6 fingers, probably a county official wanted to go onto your property and.. I suppose check your bag limit for varmints? That then resulting in a lengthy court case that almost made you as Americans say, a 'felon' forevermore, just for firing at his feet or in the air?

Quote from: Phil Potts on March 24, 2023, 07:27:36 pm

"Conspiracy" is the one word  ward-off to ignore facts.

That isn't how the word is defined.

It is defined as: "a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful". Conspiracy theory is something else altogether, defined as: a theory that explains an event or set of circumstances as the result of a secret plot by usually powerful conspirators

You'll notice warding off facts isn't included. I will admit that some might use it that way improperly though, during a sort of Gish Gallop routine.

you only wanted to know what word you were using as a one word ward off. It could just as easily be abracadabra or Rumpelstiltskin, so definition is irrelevant.

 YOU refer to "conspiracy" giving zero reasons or facts in support of why you may dismiss anything you label such. I gave YOU numerous examples of things dismissed as conspiracy by your govt being admitted to when the docs are declassified. I mentioned the obvious reasons most Americans now believe Oswald did not act alone and nobody went to the moon. YOU went right on using the single word "conspiracy" as though it is self evident anything bound by that incantation can have no basis

Quote from: Phil Potts

It also dehumanises those that might get silenced.

Well, the Gish Gallop part might, but the definition doesn't say anything about being dehumanizing or silencing either. One of the nice things about defintions of words, and facts, is that mostly they are what they are, facts being something that all parties are expected to agree on as factual in nature, i.e. no real dispute as to them as "fact".

The definition of car does not include driving from Adam Street to  Bergonia Avenue either. 

Quote from: Phil Potts

What I said about tattoos on the guy who started at 48 was an example of a full explanation, one of many I've provided. I didn't define collapse as the tattoo he talked about. I said "controlled civilizational collapse in action" and gave a full breakdown of how that works. To recap, a critical mass of conformist statists with broken spirit are essential to control. So is not using all the oil.

You certainly did have the tattoo idea wrapped up within an overarching concept, and I can see at least a sliver of it. But as I've defined collapse, it is just an irrelevant piece of information along the way, as getting a tattoo isn't of itself the dieoff that cannot be denied. As far as who is, or is not in control, that is open to debate, and your explanation did not appear to link the tattoo to this overarching theme. I don't even know what a "broken spirit" is, let alone what named group has it, or not, or that that subset has announced somewhere or gotten together and given the world the idea that it is required for control. What control? Me? You? Banks and the large institutions that have some attachment to the levers of power?

Your definition is useless except in a posthumous discussion, as I already said twice. The named group is conformist statists as I also said twice. You responded to NF saying essentially that he sees collapse as a process of preparing for a lower energy future, that is for you just doing what you do, farming and as farmgal, breaking horses untamed spirit. If you need a human example, an esteemed academic laureate with accolades out the ass, engaged in avoiding all logical and rational reasoning.

Quote from: Phil Potts

You began with talking about Maga/woke as not being real collapse, though nobody here has said anything about any of that since the new site started.

I did more than talk, I defined a real and undeniable collapse, and within my definition MAGA isn't so much as a pimple on the concept.

While you proclaim ordinary planetary developments as variously a metric or a definition, you did not BEGIN with that. You BEGAN by denouncing a pimple we never mentioned, but is the focus of the people you have said can get paid to post disinformation in line with govt narratives.

Quote from: Phil Potts

Only coincidentally, that's what alphabet agencies are focused on now. As was always said by doomers, the threat of terror and elimination turns to the domestic.

Well now you are talking about governance, and how it happens or comes off the rails. Hitler certainly used the threat of terror and elimination to run a country, as did Stalin. Worked out better for one than another. I don't believe the Swedes suffer from this though, or many other places.

You have obviously not read Sven Larrson

Quote from: Phil Potts

It couldn't be very fulfilling profiling and monitoring an innocuous equestrian like Farmgal and a barber shop quartet of harmless upstarts here. No I don't think all of us do pay the same attention to pattern recognition.

I agree that we don't have the same pattern recognition. Some of us are looking for and focused on a real collapse, the thing us doomers are keyed on, and less about the politics or groups along the way wanting to portray their understanding of the deep state, or energy, or politics, or culture, or banks as the key to something that while often claimed, always seems to sneakily receded around the next corner, each time we turn the current one.

Then there would be nothing for you to discuss. If you can't run your freezer, you can't run your router. No ice, no net. US population declines to Deagal 2025 forecast and you have something to add here only through an oija board.

What then explains your insistence that discussing HOW we arrive is verboten and that we  made wrong predictions and claims, offering no citation or example except imagined things like Tonga disappearing. I've spoken only of things coming over the horizon and now in our face, not disappearing around a corner.

Quote from: Phil Potts

2 billion people dying in a year is just some of us doing what we do and nobody disputes what you mentioned as constituting a collapse.

Exactly. I did a really good definition, to weed out real collapse from the things we pretend are collapse, or might be, or could be tomorrow if only...(fill in the blank). And we then cheapen both the word and the concept. Unfortunately.

YOUR definition is tomorrow. Anything someone else says is in the process, you need to specify the who and why you disagree. Give a full critique. 

Quote from: Phil Potts

I guess there isn't a forum for potential cannibals with modems somewhere to just wait and not say anything about how it's arrived at, hence your time spent telling us not to talk about anything except the completed process.

2 billion dying off isn't a completed process, it is just a metric. In order for that metric to happen, you, me, doomers everywhere will SEE it happening. Slowly at first probably. World population doesn't grow one year. Which means something far worse than Covid showed up. And then it gets worse, quickly. There will be no uncertainty then, because the body count will tell us all along the way.

You need to disprove us on losing access to CNN being a precursor to complete collapse, to insist we will see it from our comfy living rooms. Otherwise I in the southern hemisphere am oblivious to an asteroid or Sarmat putting a dent in another continent.

Quote from: Phil Potts

I already mentioned mass protests in the millions against being enslaved and more recently anti war, so any more in UK will not be covered by the media either.

Sounds sort of like the 60's and Vietnam? Protests aren't collapse. They are protests. And they aren't limited to enslavement, or war or economics, but even more basic things, like health care and food and education. Stopping gun violence and cheering on, or denigrating a political figure. Let us try and not confuse a pretty run of the mill, widespread and common thing with another that is more about survival, rather than preferences in elections or who is getting what slice of the pie and how.

You said a war disrupting food supply was collapse. I said DU munitions have been approved by UK for Ukr and that they poison soil.
U said UK should protest like the Boomers did. I said I've already pointed out anti war protests in the millions in Europe are ignored so more in UK would also be. I never said protests are  completed collapse. Back to the start, you have the food supply of a major donor disrupted.
 Don't waste my time jumping to anything else irrelevant to the topic, if you can never seem to remember what you were talking about.

Quote from: Phil Potts

That's my last reply as I'm sure you have better things to do and I don't like holding forth.

No problem. It was an interesting conversation. And yet for all its voluminosity, I did ask this question 5 days ago, and I'm not sure you posited an anwer.

Do you think that we'll have a collapse, a real collapse, in our lifetimes?

KD was easily able to glean where I'm coming from there and elucidated a similar sentiment. I said there is definitely a Renaissance after this dystopia which is late stage collapsing western civilization. You want to abolish looking at past civilization collapses, but the Bronze Age illustrates;

 To you and Pharoah, Egypt before the famine, pestilence and plague was wonderful, no collapse. To Moses that was already hell and 40 yrs of back to basics nomadic herding and consolidating a strong society was a liberation.

Quote from: Phil Potts on March 24, 2023, 12:41:28 pm

I'm not the one insisting that a one word incantation wards off all inconvenient fact.

Neither am I. Try not to characterize so far outside of the boundaries that I am obviously drawing with thorough explanations. If you don't like the boundaries I've defined, feel free to offer your own.

Quote from: Phil Potts

I'm also not the one insisting we must be like an animal capable of only recognising that another animal is dead, but not thinking it is going to die itself (constant expressions of wonderment and awe at low EROEI seeing out the boomer generation with a market economy, notwithstanding).

I also made no comparisons to any other species. You wish to do so, fine, then define what you even mean, non-humans being in awe of low eroei or market economies. Certainly I didn't mention much about those topics either in my definition.

Quote from: Phil Potts

The difference between myself and most others of my cohort is that I notice a lot more changes and trends, make more associations and reflect much more on a systematic theory of everything.

Outstanding. And you are presuming that all us other older farts don't do the same? Just because I like a simple metric doesn't mean it doesn't start off with exactly the kind of changes and trends analysis that you reflect on.

Quote from: Phil Potts

When I got in the car this afternoon, I caught some interview about tattoo removal and the interviewer saying he got his first tattoo at 48. He said it was because it really meant something to him. To me this is simply another quintessential example of controlled civilizational collapse in action.

There is nothing wrong with you defining collapse as middle aged people getting tattoos. In my opinion, it cheapens the use of the word among those of us who have been paying attention to the topic, and usually discussing what I will call REAL collapse, as middle aged folks getting tattooes wasn't much of a hot topic at the old Diner, and this is possibly the first time I've heard someone want to use it as an indicator.

Quote from: Phil Potts

If you want to say we have had our lifetimes, then you must say also we have had our civilization.

Now THIS strikes me as an honest thought on what I've been saying. It seems reasonable the more I think of it, so I will agree with you. Us old farts have had our lifetimes, and lived in our civilization. Based on my familiariity with newer folks, I can't say I like what they are deciding to create for their civilization any more than I like tattoos, or they like my opinion on certain topics and then call me "boomer".

Quote from: Phil Potts

Losing 25% of population a year results in complete extinction in 4 yrs. Apparently we would still haove access to nternet to only comment on real collapse and not say anything unsettling.

25% year over reductions don't involve the same number each year. 25% reduction in the first year of 8 billion in population is 2 billion, leaving 6 billion remaining. 25% of 6 billion is 1.5 billion dead, 4.5 billion remaining. Another 25% reduction in 4.5? 1.125 down to 3.375. Next is 0.84 billion dead, and a final total of 2.5 billion, give or take. Etc etc.

Quote from: Phil Potts

The UK has just approved supplying depleted uranium ammunition for use in ukr. This not only responsible for the Gulf War Syndrome, but poisons ground so food supply from a major world source is ruined. See no evil, hear no evil.

I imagine if people in the UK care there will be riots in the streets, recalls on all politicians, calls for defunding the military or government. If they aren't, well, the world is a different type society from the one us old farts had, isn't it?

"Conspiracy" is the one word  ward-off to ignore facts. It also dehumanises those that might get silenced.  Very different from investigating and assessing any suggestion of conspiracy on its merit.  In previous world wars, undermining the war effort by dissenting was jailable and this time round will be no different.

What I said about tattoos on the guy who started at 48 was an example of a full explanation, one of many I've provided. I didn't define collapse as the tattoo he talked about. I said "controlled civilizational collapse in action" and gave a full breakdown of how that works. To recap, a critical mass of conformist statists with broken spirit are essential to control. So is not using all the oil.


You began with talking about Maga/woke as not being real collapse, though nobody here has said anything about any of that since the new site started. Only coincidentally, that's what alphabet agencies are focused on now. As was always said by doomers, the threat of terror and elimination turns to the domestic. It couldn't be very fulfilling profiling and monitoring an innocuous equestrian like Farmgal and a barber shop quartet of harmless upstarts here. No I don't think all of us do pay the same attention to pattern recognition.

Your assessment of someone else's version on the process of energy scarcity as collapse was 'just some of us doing what we do' in taking action to survive the decline.  That raises the question whether something all of us do in dying can be collapse either.

2 billion people dying in a year is just some of us doing what we do and nobody disputes what you mentioned as constituting a collapse. I guess there isn't a forum for potential cannibals with modems somewhere to just wait and not say anything about how it's arrived at, hence your time spent telling us not to talk about anything except the completed process. That is telling us to also be like the kangaroo recognising road kill and not thinking about how demise also happens to itself.

I already mentioned mass protests in the millions against being enslaved and more recently anti war, so any more in UK will not be covered by the media either.

The year on year figures don't conform to typical plague, Petri dish, or even Aushwitz play outs. Nevertheless, whether it's year one or year 5, it fits with renaissance and that's the process i look forward to.

That's my last reply as I'm sure you have better things to do and I don't like holding forth.

A 120ah deep cycle for the 12v DC secondary system, used at night for small draw, also replaced.  Normally about 300$, premium brand Century , sealed no maintenance. Use with under 100$ 300w inverter and DC LED lights.

Quote from: Phil Potts on March 22, 2023, 01:48:45 am

Quote from: FarmGirl on March 21, 2023, 12:35:04 pm

Do you think that we'll have a collapse, a real collapse, in our lifetimes?

To me the dumbing down of the population with revising down the mean IQ, so that "I literally died" is now a common utterance, IS real collapse.

Well, that is completely reasonable. Collapse can be defined as very personal, and I've tried to separate my definition into the personal and global. Thinking objectively, say on the behalf of children, the well raised ones might enjoy thi situation as an economic advantage.

Quote from: Phil Potts

Nobody did try and convince anyone else any particular final eventuality is here. nearings fault specified what he envisions and that's something I see as probable also.  By your logic you do not get to also try and convince anyone you are past your heydey and will die, unless you have lost 3 pints of blood and are still gushing blood like a hydrant.

Oh, that wasn't really my logic. Mine was more like a monstrous nasty pandemic, some REAL wars kicking off involving weapons capable of not only erasing nations but the accompanyng food producing infrastructure, Yellowstone going boom, a small sized cosmic collision, etc etc.

Quote from: Phil Potts

..as none of us said we would be extinct within 4 yrs of peak oil.

Indeed. No one has that I am aware of, so I am unaware of how this particular claim is useful in this conversation.

Quote from: Phil Potts

If a whole page proving a point is  too complicated, Twitter to not exceed today's attention span might be a better forum [/i]

I'll take your word for, and if you think that is where your point (IQ decreasing meaning collapse perhaps?) is better suited please, don't let anything I've said stop you.

I'm not the one insisting that a one word incantation wards off all inconvenient fact. I'm also not the one insisting we must be like an animal capable of only recognising that another animal is dead, but not thinking it is going to die itself (constant expressions of wonderment and awe at low EROEI seeing out the boomer generation with a market economy, notwithstanding).

There was a paragraph in my previous post above ☝️ you missed (italicised), but I'm really pointing that out for the benefit of anyone else who might have also not seen it buried in there. That's if this endless rehash of reassuring sophistry for the simple isn't boring them to death. Here is the snippet anyway:

I can talk about our lifetimes because we've had them. You and I and RE, we aren't spring chickens, right? I think we can give Monsta a pass, he has more time to run than us old farts. And the coming collapse is a given, and has been since folks began realizing what growth and consumption and capitalism and pollution will do, call it Earth Day 1970 if you want me to pick a date when the basics of collapse were coming into view reasonably widely.

But the definition of collapse is what Monsta and I were commenting on. We, the collective we, cheapen the word, using it as we do for inconsequential events.


Again, you don't speak for me only pontificating and making prognostications on a process of decline and decay. My years in the 20th Century are only a few more than the years in the 21st Century, but I am as stolidly a 20th Century man as the geezers RE has for company, hence your seeming slight over estimation on my near completion on an allotted three score and ten.

The difference between myself and most others of my cohort is that I notice a lot more changes and trends, make more associations and reflect much more on a systematic theory of everything. When I got in the car this afternoon, I caught some interview about tattoo removal and the interviewer saying he got his first tattoo at 48. He said it was because it really meant something to him. To me this is simply another quintessential example of controlled civilizational collapse in action. Getting everyone to largely deface and there by degrade themselves as de riguer, demoralizes the population making them far more amenable to undergo whatever form of processing they are programmed to accept. I don't buy that this guy never previously got tattoos because there was nothing so meaningful as now. He is unoriginal in following the herd and giving a standard unoriginal explanation. That is not to say there never were people who did get things that mean something to them, but they were the minority. A critical mass of conformist statists is essential to control as more rights are removed.

If you want to say we have had our lifetimes, then you must say also we have had our civilization. You can not object to pointing out known signposts and markers of collapsing empires and civilizations as not being like experiencing vascular dementia and incontinence.

Nobody did try and convince anyone else any particular final eventuality is here. nearings fault specified what he envisions and that's something I see as probable also.  By your logic you do not get to also try and convince anyone you are past your heydey and will die, unless you have lost 3 pints of blood and are still gushing blood like a hydrant.

Oh, that wasn't really my logic. Mine was more like a monstrous nasty pandemic, some REAL wars kicking off involving weapons capable of not only erasing nations but the accompanyng food producing infrastructure, Yellowstone going boom, a small sized cosmic collision, etc etc.

..as none of us said we would be extinct within 4 yrs of peak oil.

Indeed. No one has that I am aware of, so I am unaware of how this particular claim is useful in this conversation.

Losing 25% of population a year results in complete extinction in 4 yrs. Apparently we would still have access to nternet to only comment on real collapse and not say anything unsettling.

The UK has just approved supplying depleted uranium ammunition for use in ukr. This not only responsible for the Gulf War Syndrome, but poisons ground so food supply from a major world source is ruined. See no evil, hear no evil.

Quote from: Phil Potts on March 14, 2023, 11:16:22 pm

Why didn't you provide the rest of the article? It's just a waste of time  not analysing what anyone really says or why they say it.

Quite true. Here you go. I believe he put out a book as wel. Great fun he was.

Quote from: Phil Potts

I read the whole letter to Congress and response of Congress circa 2005. It did not say anything about rolling blackouts in 2008 that I noticed. 

Rolling permanent blackouts were Richard Duncan's schtick. A bit of an oxymoron I suppose. Originall they were starting in 2012, but he revised it to 2008 back in the Energy Bulletin days Here is the full article, with the cliff in 2008 on page 7.

Folls claims where it was published is some anti-immigrant published by rascists rag. I have no opinion on the matter, I mean, it's the internet, people saying silly nonsense on it comes with the territory. Might even be why peak oil got such a foothold only after it came about rather than took over when it was being called earlier, but in science journals and whatnot.

Quote from: Phil Potts

As I mentioned at the start, the Pentagon is promising war with china by 2025.

Interesting. By any of the folks who told us Star Wars was going to stop Soviet nuclear weapons during Ronny's reign?

Quote from: Phil Potts

What's the difference between Eddie, RE, Matt and Kovid  preparing for probable eventualities?

As prepping is personal, there is no difference. And probable eventualities...sure..but in who's lifetime? Ours? Or our childrens? Assuming they even want those buckets of beans, ammo or whatever else their parents squirreled away just in case. I figure the Mormons are preppers for a reason, and been at it far longer than modern doomers, reasonable, faith based justifications work better at keeping to the path better than anything.

Quote from: Phil Potts

Fresh fruit and veg is becoming unavailable and unaffordable, as is meat for most people. Farmers are being paid not to farm, systematically shut down. Insect protein is touted as the future. Why not then keep a few tomato seeds in a bugout bag if you imagine an evacuation to be permanent.

Sounds like a good idea. And it doesn't even need fresh fruit or veg becoming unaffordable, or meat. Is that happening where you live? We should ask RE how he is being treated, you would think if fresh vegetables and meat isn't available, folks who can't do anything about it would be the first to feel it. Maybe he can chime in and let us know how the food is in his well priced rehab facility?

Other than obvious displaced homeless folks locally, I haven't seen anyone mentioning anything about insects for food or not finding fresh vegetables or meat at the store. Things are more expensive though, that is for sure.

Quote from: Phil Potts

I don't keep abreast of latest developments in the rollout of 15 min cities beginning with Oxfordshire. You don't start pushing or walking 5 miles past half a tank anyway. The planning is the fuel gauge working.

I'm not sure what the fuel tank reference means. I'll keep my eyes on Oxfordshire. That isn't in the States is it? Foriegners can really do weird things, the good news being there is no requirement a bad idea makes it Stateside.

Richard Duncan has never been mentioned, let alone offered as an oracle, why then equate him with any of us?

I got around to reading Savinars Feb 2005 paper. The teaser you posted s akin to clickbait. Reading it in full, his thesis is mainly a prediction of ongoing inflation and resource wars. So he's with myself and monsta who you defer to. I didn't notice any uncertainty in monstas short term prognosis of continued slide into poverty. What do you extrapolate that then leads to, if you say you agree with him?

Here's an excerpt from Savinar: "There will be inflation as billions of people compete for insufficient
resources. There will be famine. There will be terrorism and war.
He went on to say that it will take "presidential leadership" to inspire us to
pursue technologies that might alleviate this crisis.
In other words, the chances of technology saving you from the coming
economic collapse are about the same as the chances of another virgin-birth
taking place.
For you or any other "average" person to expect high-tech solutions to save
you from the economic effects of Peak Oil is akin to a person living in sub-
Saharan Africa to expect high-tech medical treatments to save their
community from the effects of AIDS. These treatments are available to super-
wealthy people like Magic Johnson, not poor people in Africa.
Likewise, many of the recent technological advancements in energy
production and efficiency may be available and affordable to extraordinarily
wealthy people or agencies like the Department of Defense, but they aren't
going to be available or affordable to you.
It may be a tough pill to swallow, but adaptation for 6-7 million super-wealthy
people does not equal survival for 6-7 billion not-so-wealthy people."


What he fails to consider, like many others, is what plans are implemented to maintain order, control, and manage the decline. He states that the US govt is well aware of the problem but doesn't go into those details.

He does mention "global elites", but only in context of peak oil not being just a hoax they pull. He doesn't consider them pulling other hoaxes to manage peak oil, and neither do most peak oilers or doomers say 5-15 yrs ago. They only consider logical outcomes to uninterrupted market forces, which would be chaos.

At the same time, you have giant protests (never covered by the mainstream media) by people who give no opinion on resource abundance or scarcity, but are very clear on their beliefs on being enslaved. These are going on presently in Europe on opposition to the ukr ww3, have been ongoing on dutch farm closures, yellow vests and previously lockdown/vax passport. These are protests in the millions and are the tip of the iceberg on inactive but equally concerned people. It's now mainstream and many people who you would know, but just don't talk about it to you. Mention anything indicating thinking for yourself now, and there's usually a chance they ask if you have heard of the Rothschilds. That conversation will inevitably lead to me mentioning peak oil.

One particular General said war with china by 2025, but there is incessant chatter and beating the war drums for 2030 most usually. While the Pentagon excels at appropriating trillion dollar budgets for white elephant boondoggles like star wars, they also excel at starting wars. The tilling of the soil to be fertile to start a war with china clearly falls in the latter category. I've been expecting it all my life and always said it is a certainty. So if you want to ridicule us, ostensibly because it's quiet, specifically quote me from 2011 talking about why what seemed unthinkable, war with another nuke armed major(s) would come around. I'm surprised it's taken this long, but expansion of the money supply for financial insustry to cover such things as deeper drilling, arctic drilling with receding ice cover, heavy crude, fracking, and tar sands along with progressive consolidation of wealth and ownership into ever fewer hands can't happen overnight like an uncontrolled collapse.

You have said peak oil is a price point that needs to be specified. I say that price point is where a free market economy can function, remembering that our economic system is predicated on parabolic growth. What we see are moves toward ending that entire system, both because it is not affordable or sustainable. As has been said countless times here, the economy runs on cheap energy. In the 20th C any unemployed or min wage teenager with a license, would drive around as much as they wanted, lead footing it in a gas guzzling V8. Today non essential driving is a luxury for anyone not conspicuously  wealthy. Home ownership is out of the question and even renting is becoming increasingly hard for most people under 30. At the same time ever more laws are passed to make being a private land lord unnaceptably risky. Big conglomerates are placed to continue taking over properties.

When there is a war declared, a war economy is also a legitimate reason to end what is already defunct. Rationing of fuel and food, with of course imprisonment of people expressing dissent, as in previous world wars.


I don't see how you can talk about "our lifetimes". By the logic you employ to say we are all wrong on a coming collapse as long as it has not already fully played out, you can't claim you will one day die.


I said the rollout of 15 minute cities was beginning with the UK, so no Oxfordshire is not in the US. Miami and Seattle are proposed as top contenders for first implementing them there.

The half tank mark on your fuel gauge is peak petrol. As with peak oil, you don't need to get out and walk when you reach that point. You can go about as long as you did from the F to the 1/2. When you reach E in another hundred years, you revert to horses as you were doing at the F reading. Obviously the timeline is not guaranteed to be an even distribution, but the point is nobody here said the engine splutters to a stop as soon as the needle points to half.